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Transcript of Meeting with Senator
Stevens' Office, initiating and releasing of funds,
and an appointment with the State
Department Lisa Sutherland: Actually I'm going to send around a piece of
paper, so that everyone can sign their name, and what village they are
representing. That way we'll have a
record of this meeting here. What is
the purpose of these meetings? Charlie Edwardsen,
Jr.: We had sent a telegram to
Gorbachev and President Bush, at the delta conference of our concerns. We had utilized the conferencing as a model
to resolve jurisdictional problems among ourselves. To define where is it that were going? How is it that we have been treated by the United States
govern-ment? What are our alternatives
are? Particularly addressing the
jurisdictional issues Alaska, and most of us from the Tribes are concerned
about the problems created by ANCSA.
And one of 'em is basically that ANCSA, is not a jurisdictional act. So there-fore, the original Sovereignty of
the Alaska Natives remains in-tact, since the jurisdictional issue is still
at-large. The elders of the Yupik area,
have been convening since 1988, we have resolution 88-01, we have submitted for
your information. Since then, I will
give the balance to the conference of the Yupik region that went to Hawaii--see
State of Alaska and State of Hawaii--are part of the Non-Contiguous Pacific
Area of the United States. That whole
area is subject to the Articles of Free Association, and so, the Alaska Natives
and Natives of Hawaii have not enjoyed... Sutherland: The Articles of Free Association?!? Charlie: To adopt or to reject the Articles of Free
Association. Moses Pavilla,
Sr.: Specifically the Compact... Jim Kimmel: The Compact of Free Association... Sutherland: Your gonna send me the... Is that the one
dealing with the Pacific Islands? Charlie: Yes. Sutherland: Ok.
I've seen that. I've seen
that...Right. Charlie: So we concurred with the findings of
Congress, pursuant to that authorization.
I was not at the conference, but Frank Demantle and Mr. Irvin Brink is
our Chairman. Sutherland: Oh Oh. (laughter) Charlie: I will give a full briefing on where is it
that we are. Frank can take over from
here in the 90th resolution. Rudy Kairaiuak: We went down there specifically for the
Public Law 99-239, on the Compact of Free Association, to give notice to the
Secretary of Interior, that we be designated people in that law as stated. Our chairman, Mr. Brink, through an interpreter,
on the floor of the conference, presented him our resolution ap-plying for the
Compact of Free Association and related materials, which the Secretary
graciously came down, and personally accepted the resolution from Mr.
Brink. Upon accepting the papers from
Mr. Brink, the Secretary told him, that he would work on the papers back in
D.C., and so were here to speed up the process and hopefully it would be done
in a timely and expeditious manner. Charlie: See, there is a report due to Congress by
'91. And then, the President's report to
congress on the development of the Compact of Free Association, and for the
final termination of United State's responsibility. And so, pursuant to the Secretarys meeting, Mr. Brink has then
received a letter on the reception of our paperwork, and our concerns to the
Secretary. We just had another
conference with the elders in the Yupik area, a 3 day conference, and where we
deliberated the jurisdictional issue.
Particularly the Koslivtsov Memoranda, we are of the op-inion, that the
purchase of Alaska was not a purchase of Sovereignty, that it was an
acquisition of a trading company. The
substative nature of the Koslivtsov Memoranda, in the 81st Congress, Second
Session, there is a report on the legal status of the Russian-American
Administration and the legal status of the Alaska Natives. Since 1980, the people in Alaska, saw it in
their wisdom to incorporate in their statehood com-mission, and this was a
popular statehood commission, and not an act of the state legislature, which
was empirically coordinated by the people of Alaska, and issued a
commission. And the commission findings
was that the statehood of Alaska was a grant basically for the
Anglo-Saxons. And that the
jurisdictional issue and the legal status of Alaska Natives remain at-large; however,
the findings of the statehood commission so stated that the Articles of Free
Association was available for the Alaska Natives to determine, what type of
relationship if any, with the United States government would be desirable on a
plebiscite--elections monitored by the UN. Lisa: Why does it have to be monitored by the
UN? Is that in the statute? Charlie: That's in the responsibility of the United
States when they assumed... Lisa: That's in the law that you just showed
me? Then the United States had received
that? Hank: Ya. Ya.
You see there is a reporting process, that they have to report to the
United Nations as to the status. Lisa: Ok.
Alright. Charlie: The termination of the legal relationship
between the United States, and the legal maturity of the said group--the
tar-geted groups would have to be reported.
So the route of this law has evolved, this law has been with us since 1947,
as part of the surrender of World War II.
Since ANCSA is not a jurisdictional act, that the rights outside of
those grants that did not go to state of Alaska, those portions of the 270
million acres are sub-ject to the de-colonization. So Title 48 1681 is the appropriate mechanism, where the United
States and the said native groups come into negotiation. And so, there is a date of terminous
pursuant to that date, when Ronald Reagan was in Alaska, he solely informed the
people of Alaska that statehood act has not been amended, that people of
Alaska had not changed its' Compact.
And the balance of the 270 million acres that was not granted to state
of Alaska is subject to a vote of De-Colonization! Lisa: That's what Ronald Reagan said? Hank: Yes. Charlie: This is the...the... Lisa: I don't remember that. Charlie: And so, when you see the lines, and what the
people see the grant of statehood creates the United States. Lisa: Right.
Let me ask you a fundamental question here? Why do you want to use this--go through this process, rather than
use an IRA or Traditional Council form of government, that is already in place? Charlie: No.
This form of process is already in place. This is a law already in place... Lisa: Right.
I'm asking why do you want to...why do you want to do this? Charlie: We wish to terminate the relationship of the
United States. Lisa: Oh, I see.
So you don't want any relationship with the United States? Charlie: No.
This is a way to end the relationship, and because our relationship with
the United States has been a very hostile one, for the purpose of the 5th
amendment we are not Americans.
Edwardsen vs. Morton--United States vs. ARCO, says that we don't have
5th amendment rights. If the covenants
of the United States are not applicable to us, then this relationship must be
term-inated, if we are--if our 5th amendment rights cannot be secure in law. Lisa: I think under the Indian citizenship act,
you do have full constitutional rights?!? Charlie: No. No.
Excuse me, that has already been answered by the Supreme Court. I am that person! I'm Mr. Edwardsen, of Edwardsen vs. Morton. And so, I refuse to be a subject that is
less than other Americans. The way that
we see this legal re-lationship, is to be determined peacefully, amicably,
under the context of the world order. Lisa: Let me ask you a question? Have you met with the Depart-ment of the
Interior, since you've been here? Charlie: Yes.
They have been served. Lisa: And what did they say? Charlie: We are waiting for their response. And if you read our telegram to Mr.
Gorbachev and Mr. Bush, which was sent to them during the Malta conference, we
have made this available to the United States.
Our desire is well established in law, and furthermore, since the United
States has accepted the Genocide Convention.
Furthermore, I wish to give to you this process, just because the press
in Alaska, does not cover the entirety of the Native jurisdictional issues,
does not mean that there is a segment of society that has a different desire
than the Anglo-Saxons of Alaska. Lisa: Is this the one you already gave me? Charlie: No. Hank: That's the telegram to Bush and Gorbachev. Lisa: Is this it?
This is a different one? Tell me
what are you wanting from Senator Stevens? Charlie: The funds that are appropriated for this are
non-sequestrable funds. There is
conference dollars appropriated for the Secretary of Interior and Secretary of
State to commence a conference called by the statute, and we wish that Senator
Stevens would use his good influence for the Secretary of Interior and
Secretary of State to convene a conference, that we have elected pursuant to
that authorization. See time is running
out, and we refuse to be victimized by time! Lisa: Is there a time limit in the statute? Charlie: Yes. Lisa: What's the deadline? Charlie: '91
(1991) Lisa: Ok. Charlie: Before that we charge the United States
government and Russia, as you well
know, that beyond the 3 mile limit, aboriginal rights of the Alaska Natives
have not been extinguished by ANSCA. So therefore, our aboriginal jurisdiction
remains intact, that United States and Russia may have some desire of
themselves; however they are not alone in securing their rights by themselves,
for themselves, there is third party interests-a substantial third party
interests-to these rights. As you well know, Senator (Stevens) spoke against the nazification of the Alaska
Supreme Court, in saying State of Alaska is going to regulate
International species, on subsistence issues, that State of Alaska may
be on the way of loosing all of the authority it may claim under the
international laws, and loose them to the Feds. This jurisdictional issue has
ripened. Furthermore, the Genocide Convention, since America has become
civilized in adopting the Genocide Convention by Congress, that the avenue for
legal regress, against American Anglo-Saxon institutions has become a cause of
action. Prior to that, they could have utilized their internal police
force, and give a ruling as racistically as possible as they have
done in Edwardsen vs. Morton; Ti-Hi-Ton vs. United States; re
John Minook; and so these cases must be review-ed in the likeness of the
supremacy of the law, by the last Treaty signed by the United States which is
the Genocide Convention. The scope and the problem of the Arctic Policy as
defined by the United States,
have given with all of the scientific back-ground behind that policy. The
findings are so grim, that it's own administration
and good doctors had find the administration policies of the
United States toward the Alaska Natives were in fact genocidal, as
discovered by their own peers. Lisa: Okay. Wait, I think I understand, what you
are seeking in terms of the Compact
of Free Association. Are there any other is-sues, health issues, or allotment
issues or anything like that? Charlie: We are here to address--as you well see--in
that resolu-tion speaks for itself; and those issues that you have just men- tioned are part of
the subject items in the agenda for the con- ference; so I do not
think that we had missed any agenda item; and when you see
specifically what you see in those jurisdictional issues and governmental
issues in that agenda is, that we wish to advance them
in a conference setting with the United States government, and the State
Department present to deal with these issues not in a
confrontational--litigation environment, where we have been victimized. Hank: The law sets up these conferences, so that
they can be good discussions on there, so they come within the Free
Association. And after the conference,
whenever the Association is, this will be written the...jurisdiction and within
the Title of the elders. Lisa: I understand that. Charlie: See we concurred with the findings of
Congress. What we would like to see
from the Senator, is for him to advance, the last caret for human rights, and
the right of a democratic forum of institutions to co-exist. Lisa: Let me go see if he is back from his
meetings yet. I'll see if he can step
in for a minute. Charlie: Senator Stevens can set up something up
monday. Ok, and so, they can have the
gravity, and fathomness over the week-end, and get us an appointment with the
appropriate State Depart-ment. Senator Stevens: There are the usual class of suspects, how
are you? Charlie, how are you? I'll reach down there mentally. I got some mail, I've got to see. Charlie: Our focus to the State Department, so we
will see what advice and counsel we will get from our Senator. And if we have to do it ourselves in a
hostile way, it can be done. So we got
to know which way. Hank: They have to abdicate these responsibilities
first. Charlie: So I will have the statehood commission
stuff copied by 4:00 O'Clock. I'll
leave them a copy, and make sure they will have one. Senator Stevens: I didn't know you were going to be here, so
tell me what's that your doing here? Charlie: We just met with the Secretary of State and
his people yesterday. We have been
utilizing conferencing forum to resolve these legal issues with the United
States government, particular-ly focusing on the United States Department of
Interior. We started this in '88, and
have had a series of elders conference, and then to address jurisdictional issues. We had uncovered in Title 48 1681, in
1986... Lisa: That's the Free Compact... Charlie: Yeah.
The Compact of Free Association.
The jurisdic-tional issues of the Alaska Natives is still at-large. The Kostlivtsov Memoranda was not fully
deliberated during land claims, so we concur with the 1950 interpretation of
what was transacted, and the findings of the United States Congress in 1950, at
the time, in the 81st Congress, Second Session. I think the House Report 152.
With the Articles of Free Association and the Joint Resolution by
Congress in 1986, January 14. The
jurisdictional issues that were stated in there are very much at-large. So in Alaska, Secretary of Interior and
Secretary of State have not convened a conference for such deliberations, and
the findings of the Alaska Statehood Commission was favorable towards the Natives. The legal status--the section called the
legal status of Alaska Natives. One of
their recommendation was for a conference to convene by the Secretary of
Interior and Secretary of State to resolve the jurisdictional issues between
Alaska Natives and so, I'm having some copies made of the final report and
preliminary report, and the status of the Alaska Natives. Where it was recommended that the Compact of
Free Association may be the most amicable way to resolve jurisdictional issues
with the United States. And the
peculiar situation of the Alaska Natives and we concur with that finding. So what we are seeking for, is release of
funds by the Secretary of Interior, and Secretary of State to convene a
conference prior to a report that is submitted to President by 1991. So there
are funds that are non-sequestrable charged to the Secretary of Interior and
Secretary of State for the conference to convene. So what has happened
last september. We had a delegation
that went to the conference that was held in Hawaii, as you will know, the
Policy of the United States toward the Non-Contiguous Territories include
Alaska and Hawaii. So the Alaska
portion of the conference had not been convened, so we feel this is an appropriate
time for such a conference to be convened by the Secretary of Interior and
Secretary of State, and we wish to host this con-ference jointly with the
elders. And this is our presence here
today. And the Secretary of Interior
and his people have designated Assistant Secretary Guerra, in the International
and Insular Affairs that are responsible for the Articles of Free Association
responsibilities. And we don't know who
in the State Department is assigned to this task, but we need your good offices
to engage us with the people in the State Department who are charged with that
same responsibility, for that report by 1991.
We have some paperwork that we have been focusing on, so if you could
give us a response by monday and to review our in-formation to date, I will
have by 4:00 O'clock, a copy of the findings of the statehood commission. It is favorable, and we encourage that route
over litigation. I can have the
findings of facts--the statehood commissions findings to your staff by this
afternoon, sometimes after 4:00 O'clock.
Then the legal issues from there as they are identified in that report
we concur. And we concur this is the
most amicable way to resolve jurisdictional issues. Were seeking from your office to provide us an appoint-ment with
the appropriate State Department people, who have the co-responsibility for
implementing the Free Association. Senator Stevens: Oh, well I didn't expect this, I'm leaving,
I won't be back in this office until wednesday morning, the first time that I
can get you a reply would be wednesday morning, but I will look this over
during the weekend on the trip I'm taking.
And I'll get back to you, and it is entirely new to me, and I'm going to
have to take a look and see... Charlie: Okay. Senator Stevens: See what this means. But I will do so, you know, I'm really
elected by the State, but I'm a Federal Officer. I must follow the federal legislation, that has been approved by
the President. There may be something that
you got a right to raise, that hasn't been brought to my attention before, and
I'll take a look at that over the weekend. Hank: We're gratified by your statements--recent
statements con-cerning the Supreme Court decisions of the State of Alaska, plus
the assertions of--validity of these tribal resolutions. Those statements that you made you know,
that were very supportive of that. Senator Stevens: Well I appreciate that. I did have other appointments, and I didn't
know you were coming. So if you have
anything, first give it to Lisa, and I'll have something for you on wednesday. Group: Thank you Senator. Charlie: Okay.
Great. So that's all that we
have, and we will make that available to you as soon as I can get them a 4
o'clock. Lisa: Okay, Alright. Charlie: Okay?
So I will get them and I'll keep in touch with you. Lisa: Okay. Group: Thank you Lisa. Lisa: How long are you guys going to be in town
now? Charlie: Right after that we have our meeting. Lisa: Okay. |